Regrets About the T-40

When talking about the T-40 to friends, especially Hartley, I sometimes am asked what I'd do differently if I could go back to 1975.

I'd argue longer for Southern Ash for less weight. Hartley and I both knew that weight doesn't equal sustain, but the buying public still believed that it did.

I would have not used the Red Rhodes wiring, as it had questionable merit and confused some when turning toward treble started a hum. Cutting the coil-tap red wire allows much more desirable treble overtones, so I'd not use the coil tap.

I would make a T-60 pickup with a wider blade to use on the T-40; it sounds much, much better. The little basslets with the T-60 blade pickups kick the T-40's ass off the stage.

I'd offer a glossy finish as an option until sales of the matte finish dried up. We chose the matte finish to take pressure off the buffing line, although they had no trouble with the glossy necks.

Of course, I'd eliminate the front part of the bridge that was made for the weather stripping foam strip.

I would have argued harder for stocking replacement parts! That would have entailed adding block-off capabilities for the die-casting family molds; quite an expense.

I WOULD HAVE KEPT SERIAL NUMBER AND SPECIFICATION CHANGE DATES! Nobody truly knows the date of production startup. Neither Hartley nor I were the least bit interested in dates and it's bitten us in the ass. I'm still not interested in dates, but now know how important it is to some. The nostalgia thing is ridiculous and is as snobbish as pegheaditis.

There; have I offended everybody now? :-)
Chip

Maybe I should clear up possible wrong impressions about my posting. I do not regret designing the T-40 nor helping to produce it. I love it and am proud of it, but, as if it were one of my children, I would not hesitate to improve certain aspects if I could. If one of my children had crooked teeth, it would not be showing disrespect to take that child to an orthodontist.

Likewise, if it were within my power to change a few things on the T-40, I would. To say I thought it perfect would be dumb and a great denial. I feel that I can be candid with those who have professed a loyalty to it and that they would feel free to express their opinions, if done so tactfully.

If I came across as brutally frank, it certainly wasn't meant to disrespect those who have professed an attachment to the T-40.

Nobody has written or asked me about this, but I may have offended someone with my openness. I wouldn't have done the many modifications to mine and other's T-60s and T-40s if I didn't accept other's difference of opinions. If I buy something and see something about it I would like better some other way, if it is in my power, I change it.

I feel that hurting someone else's feelings is worse than physical affront, as it's more permanent. So I only mean to express what I feel I have learned since the old design days. I've never been one to hide my many mistakes.

Thanks for thinking enough of the T-40 to form this forum. I'm flattered and hope this forum will be a place to do more than sing praises. Help educate me and others with ideas.
Respectfully, Chip

Chip, big respect!

Say it like it us - I am not offended!

What you did right!

You went against the flow, you did something different, you came at
it from a different angle, you researched new technology, you broke
new ground - it was different!
The first guitar to be CNC made - almost all are done that way now.
Imaginative electronics - Why not? Why follow the rest of the flock,
why not do something different? What I would say is that it would have
perhaps been best to have a Push-Pull pot to activate the phasing, that
doubled as a tone pot, (sort of T-45 ish) then you would have had it all.
Some people argue that the phase switch was not needed - I disagree,
it is a case of knowing how to use it. Many don't realise that it will alter
the single coils on the back pick-up. Yes, they could be brighter with
different wiring but people who buy an EBO don't want it for it's ability
to be Stanley Clarke, Mark King or Bernard Edwards - they want it for
Deep Thud. I've got one and "that's what it does".
A T-40 has T-40 sounds and a lot of other sounds - Great!
The extended T-60 pup does appeal to me - Mmm, there's a thought!
The matte finish is great, the colours where great - "Tanburst" as I call it,
is one of my all time favourites.
The Bridge! Well, what a bridge??
Everyone goes on about High Mass bridges.
So, if the likes of Badass are marketed for their mass, they appear as
a mere toy against the likes of the T-40's bridge.
Does anyone know of a production bridge with a higher mass?
I am right with you on the parts issue - shame about that.
To people like me who are interested in that sort of thing, accurate
serial numbers would be great but you weren't the first guitar company
to have doubt on the numbers, we do the best we can with what we
have got.

So, that's where I stand.
I think that the T-40 and the T-60 are great instruments and oddly enough,
like a lot of things, are now starting to be appreciated, many years after
they went out of production.

I have other stuff that I would like to say but for the time being,
I'll leave it at this.

Chip, all the best - I look forward to your response.

Flat Eric.

Chip, no offense taken here at all. It's funny that you mentioned the gloss finish. I had an old, really beat-up T-40 body that I decided to refinish for the experience. I wanted a gloss finish. Here is the result, I'm quite happy with it, for an amateur.





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Thanks, I want opinions especially when they don't agree with mine. I might not have thought about their view.
Chip

Chip, you've already addressed my thoughts about what could have been improved upon with the T-40. The weight is the biggest issue for me. I also HATE pickguards. If the T-40 had been constructed like the T-45, with access from the back, it would be more appealing. I have nothing bad to say about the sound.

It's interesting to hear you say that the smaller T-60 pickups kicked the mostrerous T-40's ass.

It was a big time surprise to me, also. It seems that the honking big size of the T-40 pickup made us forget that it's the number of turns of wire that gives the volume and the lesser resistance if the shorter overall length of wire allowed the high overtones that the T-60 produced. It's elementary, my dear Watson. I was misled by that bulk.
Chip

Chip, Hi.

As I am very much involved in "spreading the word" on all things
"T" in the UK, I have listed all sorts of things but one of my posts
from last year refered to the weight of the components and the
total weight of the T-40 Bass.
On an average, they weigh around 10.5lbs, with the bridge accounting
for almost a pound in weight.
Is 10.5lbs really heavy?
An average Aria SB1000 or the 70's Ash Precisions will be around 10lbs,
so I can't see that 8oz is going to make that much difference.

This is what I posted last year:

One of the things that is often said about the T-40 is how powerful
the pups are and how you can dial in a lot of different subtle tone
differences.
Although they were all machine made and feel pretty much the same,
they all have slight differences in sound. Two of the same year, side
by side, have a difference. Pretty much in line with other makes, I guess.
In reality, this would only make a difference in a studio, live - you would
not be able to tell.

The other thing is the weight.

Well, compared to a Steinberger, yes!
Compared to a Jazz or Precision, Yes.
I do have heavier, though - an Ibanez Studio that you could knock posts
into the ground with!!
I was thinking about this, earlier this year, when I opened up my '79 to
sort out an annoying crackle, I decided to strip it down, clean it up and
give it a good service.
I weighed the parts on a very accurate industrial scale.
The body was 2.15Kg - 4.73 lbs, neck 1.16KG - 2.55 lbs and all the remaining
parts were 1.45KG - 3.19 lbs. Total 4.76KG - 10.49 lbs.
When you consider that each bridge saddle weighs about one ounce and the whole
bridge, assembled, is just under 1 lb, at 15 ounces, I think that's what tipped it over
the edge! Does anyone know of a heavier bridge??
Having weighed some of the others, 10.5 lbs is about on the mark.
Does this add to the sound? Well, all things considered, I suppose it does.
What are they like to gig with?
Well, our sets are about 45 to 50 minutes and it doesn't bother me, in fact
after a while you get used to it and then going back to something lighter/smaller,
feels a bit odd.
The last two weekends I used a Jazz and an Ibanez Roadster - loved it but this
weekend I've got to whip out a couple of T-40's!

The bodies are Ash, with the natural ones having more figuring on the upper bout.
The odd thing is that most are five piece but every now and again, they are three
pieces - central core and two wings.

Think that'll do for now.

Cheers.
Flat Eric


That's the weight issue covered!!
The other thing I mentioned in the post was the subtle
differences in the sounds of each one of them.
This was explained by you on the detail about pick-up winding,
so now it makes sense to me - they do sound different, it's not
just me!

I started a Blog, last year - slow to get off the ground but I'm
getting there. My last entry was entitled "Chip Todd"

My last few posts show some of my T-40s in all their glory.
Have a look at these 25 to 30 year old Classics.
http://flatericbassandguitar.blogspot.com/

Gorgeous!!

Chip, all the best to you - look forward to more of your input.

Flat Eric

Eric, I've owned several T-40s that were in the 13-almost 15 lb. range. No joke. I've also had some, very few in the 10.5 lb range.

Scottpro1969 wrote:

Eric, I've owned several T-40s that were in the 13-almost 15 lb. range. No joke. I've also had some, very few in the 10.5 lb range.

Strewth. . . . . OUCH!!!

I don't make a habit of weighing everyhting that I have but
if they are "Weighty", I will put them on the scales out of curiosity.
The heaviest out of all of them is "The Beast" a later Natural,
the most powerful amongst my T-40's, at 12lbs!!
Not the heaviest bass I have but certainly the heaviest T-40!

Maybe it's the air over here!!

I'm off to whip out the scales!

Cheers.

im new here.....so hello everyone!!

i got my T40 out of luck, and im glad i found it coz i love it.....one of the best sounding basses of all time imo .....

but what i would change is being able to get hold of spare parts, like at the mo im in need of a new pick up selector switch witch is near impossible to get hold of!!!

other then that i love this bass and shocked about how under rated it is!!

Chip - you saw my reply to the same question on the T-60 forum. I'd say my answers there would fit in with the T-40 as well. Well, maybe not the 3-per-side headstock on the CT-2.

The only thing I would add about my T-40 is the fact that I can't play it. It sounds wonderful when a real bassist picks it up though.

Guys I can vouch for the T-60 pickups on Chip's Basslets. Wicked cool tone on them little babies. Maybe I need a Basslet to ease my transition to bass?

Tony;
That'll keep you from having to make money and room for a T-40. Or, at least it'll keep your T-40 in new condition. The only problem is that people expect a smaller instrument would be proportionally less expensive, but all of the hardware is the same and you only save about a dollar on wood.

Chip

I would have had one of your Basslets when I lived in San Antonio if only my cash situation were a bit better off.

Regarding the look, the size, weight and feel of the T-40 I honestly feel it is perfect (with the metal nut, blade pick ups & skinny switched of course). All that chrome on it looks awesome and really looks like a heavy duty machine and when you hold it it feels exactly how it looks. I was looking for the perfect 4 String bass for the longest time being a life long 5 stringer and other popular 4 string basses never sat well with me. Fender Jazz/P basses looked awesome in pictures while my favorite bass players were holding them but every time I tried one it just felt that something was missing. They looked cooler than they played. The American Deluxes always felt like toys to me. That and the size of them on my huge frame was very disappointing. Seeing Geddy Lee, John Paul Jones and Geezer basses with these "immense" basses were a huge let down in my hands when they looked as if I was holding a ukulele. Also finding out that my bass heros were midgets was a little disappointing also. lol.

Then one fateful day I saw a picture of the T-40 and it looked perfect. I couldn't believe I had never heard of these basses before. I loved the looked especially. Black on Black, Maple, all that chrome, that awesome head stock, i had to try one out. So I did, and once that sucker was in my hand it felt like it was me. Huge frets, huge fret board, huge body, the headstock looked even better in person.

The thing for me that lessens this love affair I had with the T-40 was the sound. Trying to get that perfect bass chugging sound was difficult. I play mostly heavy metal, hard rock. Modern. My main bass is a MusicMan Bongo 5 string and I keep that sucker cranked! All knobs cranked all the way up, dual humbucker kept in the middle position and through my Ampeg head/cab equalized the way i like it i get the perfect balance of bass and brightness. Need to chug on heavy, need that low bass but i need it to ring as well. Which was hard to find with T-40. it was either always too bright and high to get that ring but there was a lack of bass or as everyone knows the other extreme which is i think why most people lean towards the T-40 is that fat thud of a bass sound. Which is great but it is not a particular sound that I go for. I think this is why most samples of T-40's you find on youtube (if you are lucky enough to find them) are subject to country songs and soft rock tunes.

So that said, I have to admit I am completely T-40less at the moment. Except for some cases and a few body parts, misc. hardware, cases, necks that are stashed away up in my attic. But i currently own ZERO working T-40's. But i do not intend to be T-40less for to long for I have my eye open for the perfect dark tobacco sunburst with rosewood neck and I f i ever come across it I will surely buy it and keep it forever as a trophy for lasting friendship that I had with these basses.

On the picture pages you can see all the picture of the black beauties I once owned. For one reason or the other I sold them. Mostly because of the sound, some didn't have enough kick to them, one had a sleek and glossy neck which i wasn't too fond of, some were too light. So, yeah, sad to say that I am without a T-40 at the moment.

I do also have a couple cool mementos I had made regarding the T-40's and I always planned to put pictures of them up on here but still have gotten around to it. Hmm, maybe one day!!!!!

Victor, Hi.

Yep, I have loads of other stuff. . . . . . . but keep coming back!!!

Would love to see your pics.

Solution: I have an EQ Pedal (will get you a pic) that I use on a lot on my passive basses - a memory setting and a boost (manual setting)
Sorted!!
Will show you my simple set up!

Join in again, you know you want to . . . . .

Well, here's the link to the pics up here on the forum-

Now the blind shall See...(UPDATE: 2 New Basses)

Would love to see/hear what you got up your sleeve regarding the solution to the sound. If not a solution then at least a good kick in the ass.

And yeah, I want back in so bad, just need to find me a near mint 15 lb. Dark Tobacco Sunburst with Rosewood neck, skinny switches, metal nut and blade pick ups Peavey T-40 from Hell and it's on!

Hey Viktor,

Welcome back my friend to the show that never ends, we're so glad you could attend, come inside...come inside.

You had one of the best collections of T-40s around, my brother. Glad to see you posting again!

My reason for not playing a T-40 (the weight) mostly, is your reason FOR playing one....you really want a 15lb T-40

why did you sell all of yours? If it's personal, I understand...just wondering.

Hi!

I'm Simon Beck, a 48-year-old self-taught multi-instrumentalist from London, England. My main instruments are bass and keyboards (especially Wurlitzer electric piano and organ), although I'll have a go at almost anything! I currently play keyboards with an 11-piece ska band, The Skanx.

Sadly I no longer own a T-40, although between 1980 and 1994 I owned three of them (one after another) - they kept getting stolen! All of mine were natural finish with rosewood fingerboards. The first had toaster pickups and a slab body while the others had blades and a slightly contoured body. The phase switch on the second one broke (those strange switches were pretty but fragile; one of the T-40s few negative features) and I had it replaced with a standard mini-toggle. After my last T-40 got stolen I replaced it with a cheapo MusicMan copy which, along with a Stagg electric upright is still my main bass.

But I really miss the T-40. It was a serious, no-nonsense instrument with great stage-presence and an amazing range of sounds. I swear to this day that I could (and did) make mine sound like an upright bass or a tuba!

Is there ANY possibility of persuading Hartley to reissue this instrument? It was the most versatile bass ever, and I love everything about it.

butterfingersbeck wrote:

Hi!


Is there ANY possibility of persuading Hartley to reissue this instrument? It was the most versatile bass ever, and I love everything about it.

Simon, Hi.
Nice to see someone on this side of the pond.

Checked out your website - looks like you are busy at the moment!!
You playing keyboards?

To be honest, there are still a lot of Peavey "T's" is circulation, some a
bit road worn but a fair amount in mint condition, so I can't see that
a re-issue would be viable.
At a guess, to make a replica in the USA would cost over £1000
and that's on the basis that they could sell a lot of them.

If you want a T-40, I can help you sort you one out.

Another note on the possibility of re-issued T-60s & 40s; if the price on excellent condition T-40/60s were to rapidly jump to around $1,100, (price is my guess), Hartley might consider it. I really doubt that he could mfg. one in the USA at a cost that would end up at dealers for under $1,200.

Don't hold your breath.
Chip

Flat Eric wrote:

If you want a T-40, I can help you sort you one out.

It's very tempting! How much would one in playable condition cost? I don't have much spare cash - my MusicMan copy is probably worth no more than about £70 - but it would be great for the odd gig I get with a Blues Brothers tribute band!

Here is a piccy of my current gear - the Wurlitzer is owned by my band rather than myself, and I am still trying to teach myself to play the violin...

.Viktor Bassenstein. wrote:

Well, here's the link to the pics up here on the forum-

Now the blind shall See...(UPDATE: 2 New Basses)

Would love to see/hear what you got up your sleeve regarding the solution to the sound. If not a solution then at least a good kick in the ass.

And yeah, I want back in so bad, just need to find me a near mint 15 lb. Dark Tobacco Sunburst with Rosewood neck, skinny switches, metal nut and blade pick ups Peavey T-40 from Hell and it's on!

Hi.
This is for you, themacinator and anyone else who is interested.





This is my Boss EQ-20, which is a great bit of kit.
I use it with almost all of my basses and it does make a big difference.
It will take the dry sound and enhance lows, mids and highs.

When off, you have the pure sound of the bass, which I set up on
the amp, sort of a bottom gear, if you like.
I have the memory as a second gear, more mids and a bit more
highs and set the manual to almost the same setting, just very
slightly up on the memory settings - top gear!
We do Classic Rock and there is only me, the guitarist and
the drummer, the singer out front, concetrating on the singing.
If you take something like "Hey Joe" the laid back start is in
bottom gear, the first solo, second gear (memory) then back
to first gear, solo - 2nd gear again and towrds the end. . . .
all hell breaks loose, third gear and a blazing finale.
Applause, whilst I switch back to bottom gear or second gear,
if more meat is required at the start - something like "Black Night".

Works for me.

Any EQ peal will enhance the sound but I find the
memory/manual options very useful.

Hope this helps someone.

Cheers.


Hope this helps.

Scottpro1969 wrote:

why did you sell all of yours? If it's personal, I understand...just wondering.

Yo, Scott! Yeah, man sold them all. For one reason or the other there was something in each individual T-40 that irked me. Neck was too skinny on one, the other way too light, another didn't have enough kick, etc. In retrospective I think i was better off keeping a Black/Maple I sold first and ridding myself of everything else but alas...

So with all them now gone, I think if I could find a pristine Dark Sunburst/Rosewood would be the perfect fit for my collection and to keep as my sole T-40 till thy Kingdom come!

...with blade pick ups, the metal nut and skinny switches of course.